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Chat archive · 2017-06

Konov · · #6172

big? All speed is 400 GHs on nicehash

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6173

no, 400 MH/s

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6174

not 400 G.

Konov · · #6175

you shoul look closer, its 400 GHS right now on nicehash and 300 GHS on westhash(columt to the right)

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6176

Yes, I can see that.

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6177

However, you just said a bot would pass me up if my speed cap were small enough e.g. 10 GH/s. Well, my cap is 400 MH/sec, so far lower than your suggestion. If it were about speed caps, I’d be way under their radar.

Konov · · #6178

your speed is 0.4?

Konov · · #6179

what is your order number?

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6180

That is correct.

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6181

Order #3012681

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6182

(as you can see, it has since found some hashing power at that price point, but I don’t think it will last)

Konov · · #6183

your price is to low for current conditions

Konov · · #6184

prohashing price 0.000038, you trying to make 0.000026

Konov · · #6185

because of other players, you didnt got power

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6186

the "current conditions" are being manipulated by these bots. That’s the problem. I refuse to let them dictate the prices to me.

Konov · · #6187

every one want to cat a piece of cake. When mining price got up, everyone got a race to a higher point, trying to take some piece of power.

Konov · · #6188

that’s why price goes up

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6189

Besides, the profitability shown here on Prohashing is so variable that it surely is not the only thing the bots use to manipulate the market.

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6190

It’s not "everyone racing". It’s bots racing, and a bot will always win out against a human. That’s what makes it market manipulation, rather than a proper free market.

Konov · · #6191

prohashing is pool for miners. NH got self own pool

Konov · · #6192

with no fees

Konov · · #6193

so, bot will never loose

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6194

...which is exactly why they should be forbidden on NH (as well as here). bots manipulating a market make it unfair and uncompetitive.

Konov · · #6195

The only one condition you can make to overbeat him, is make such big price, that it will consider not to make at such big stake. So he will never loose money, but you will do

Konov · · #6196

bots are making market very competitive

Konov · · #6197

no so competive market makes such multipools - every single coin will go to a zero profit, if this coin is mining on such multipool

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6198

no, bots do NOT make a market competitive. "competitive" means humans competing against humans on an even playing field, with no one having an unfair advantage. running bots gives someone an unfair advantage when you have players in the market that are incapable of doing the same thing.

Konov · · #6199

you can make your own bot . LOL

Konov · · #6200

it’s competive

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6201

No, actually, I cannot.

Konov · · #6202

if you cant - then just sit and mine with miner

Konov · · #6203

NH is not for your income. It’s competive market for everyone. If you can overcome everyone by price - you are thewinner.

Konov · · #6204

and miners on NH winers too

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6205

If I were to run a "mom-and-pop" sort of store of some kind, and some big-box store moves into town, you’re basically saying "sure, can compete if you just purchase a $50 million dollar piece of property"... um, no, I can’t. That’s an unfair market advantage and entirely non-competitive.

Konov · · #6206

and another thing- I can thay, you are cheating, because you using prohashing multipool - it makes you best prices

Konov · · #6207

while i’m mining ltc, for example ang can’t make such income, like you

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6208

No, that’s not cheating, because anyone can use any pool with zero extra outlay and no more or less skills than it takes to set up a miner in the first place, and nicehash explicitly says you can do that.

Konov · · #6209

the thing is, prohashing made for everyone, bus specialists. But there are no good bots made for others LOL

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6210

The point I am trying to make here, Konov, is that bots present an unfair market advantage to a few people who have have just the right skills. I wouldn’t be surprised if the people in control of these bots are also in violation of Nicehash terms of service

Konov · · #6211

Bots market are the next level. ;)

Konov · · #6212

If you can’t do your own bot - than you allways got apportunity to mine with your own asic here.

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6213

I already have my own ASICs.

Konov · · #6214

Sorry for my english l)

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6215

And while they’ll never make me rich, they are profitable even after the electricity cost.

Konov · · #6216

of course

Konov · · #6217

it’s all about money ;) LOL

Konov · · #6218

the true thing, if 2brothers will BAN NH bots on this pool, miners income will be better!

Konov · · #6219

because less hashrate will mine profitably coins, making profitability last longer.

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6220

Point is, the bots are attempting to make it unprofitable for actual flesh-and-blood users on nicehash, which WILL cost them money sooner or later (fewer users means less fees they can collect)

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6221

I imagine it isn’t doing Prohashing any good either.

Konov · · #6222

bots want to make money and tuned to go to a slightly loss level.

Konov · · #6223

so, if you want overcome bot, you are on the loss level yourself

Konov · · #6224

the only one method is triyng to make such orders, that bot will not pay attention on it

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6225

All nicehash needs to do to fix this problem is require a capcha or something when placing a new order.

Konov · · #6226

LOL NH got API for bots

Konov · · #6227

it is designed especially for bots

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6228

they have an API for bots, but I don’t think they meant for it to be used in this fashion.

GregoryGHarding · · #6229

yeah the bots use NH API to directly integrate themselves into the website

Konov · · #6230

if there will no bots, price on prohashing will be for example 0.1 and on NH will be 0.05

Konov · · #6231

who will mine on NH?

GregoryGHarding · · #6232

thats pretty much the sole purpose of the API on NH is to bot profitability

GregoryGHarding · · #6233

i dont buy into NH because its a lottery game.. its gambling

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6234

if there were no bots on nicehash then it would be actual people. You don’t need bots to make money.

Konov · · #6235

you can say same thing about any exchange

GregoryGHarding · · #6236

making omney and maximizing profitibility are two different things tho

Konov · · #6237

but with out bots, prices will be too manipulated

GregoryGHarding · · #6238

thats why i either own my equipment or straight out buy cloud hashpower

GregoryGHarding · · #6239

no gamble

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6240

Without bots, it would take actual human interaction to manipulate the market. That’s the whole point.

Konov · · #6241

no

Konov · · #6242

prohashing is like a bot

Konov · · #6243

so, ban prohashing? LOL

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6244

um, no. it doesn’t work like that.

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6245

prohashing is just a coin-switching pool.

Konov · · #6246

it is coin-changing bot

Konov · · #6247

!

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6248

it doesn’t sit there placing orders on another site,.

Konov · · #6249

and it gives you the price

GregoryGHarding · · #6250

technically prohashing acts like a bot, it automatically finds max profit coin and switches to it

Konov · · #6251

so you can look at the price here and place order there

Konov · · #6252

but it is not fair LOL

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6253

Greg, in a way it does, but it isn’t sitting there placing orders, canceling them, re-placing them at a higher/lower price, etc.

Konov · · #6254

you using prohashing-bot like

Konov · · #6255

so, it is all not fair game

GregoryGHarding · · #6256

no vanessa, but bots perform many different functions as what their programmed to do

GregoryGHarding · · #6257

prohashing is programmed to search high profit coins and send them to miners.. NH bots maximize their bottom line for profit

Konov · · #6258

if there will no prohashing and other multipools everyone smart enough will got more money

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6259

A better comparison would be, if you wanted to use the lottery analogy, is that prohashing is handing you scratch tickets at random, from a supply of a couple hundred kinds, each time you complete one, you’re handed another. Each always wins, but the win is always small, and not always quite enough to cover the cost of the ticket (though on average it is)

Konov · · #6260

because clever people will find profit coins, while not so celver people will not

GregoryGHarding · · #6261

thats why i said il never pay for NH, its gambling bot or human interaction.. dosnt matter

Konov · · #6262

so, it’s a silly, when people crying because of NH bots, while using prohashing-bot

Konov · · #6263

LOL

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6264

the NH bots are creating that situation; mining with ASIC hardware on Prohashing for example is always a profit. It would be for NH -> PH too if the bots weren’t pushing the prices out of the profitable range for ordinary humans.

GregoryGHarding · · #6265

proshashingbot name calling is a little unfair though.. id just call it a smartpool

VanessaEzekowitz · · #6266

that’s a much better way to put it, Greg

Konov · · #6267

No. prohashing did not got most profit coins. That thing is ;)

Konov · · #6268

prohashing-bot is for people to understant, that they are using bot here and crying about bots on HN - it makes e laugh

Konov · · #6269

;)

GregoryGHarding · · #6270

on another topic, the upgrade today is actually wonderful

GregoryGHarding · · #6271

eevyone turn on authy 2FA?