Has anyone else noticed a reduction in earnings over the last month or so? I'm not talking about the number of coins paid out, as that obviously depends on the price of the coin on each day that a payout is made.
Averaged over the last week of February, I was earning $38.63 per day. It's been on a downward slide since then and the last week of March (up to yesterday) the earnings were down to $30.70 per day.
Because of the way that (as I understand it) PH works, there is bound to be some variation. Market conditions will sometimes make the algos that they use to select coins sometimes more profitable and other times less profitable. But the last month has seen a fairly consistent downward slide.
There have been a few instances over the last 2 weeks when PH wasn't reachable (from the UK), but this certainly wouldn't account for the 20% drop in payouts.
Anyone else noticed this?
Ian
Reduction in earnings over the last month
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Keep in mind that the forums are monitored by PROHASHING less closely than the official support channels, so if you have a pressing issue, please submit an official support ticket so that our Support Analyst can look into your issue in a timely manner.
We cannot answer financial questions related to your account on a public forum, so those questions should always be submitted through the orange Support button on prohashing.com/about.
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Re: Reduction in earnings over the last month
Do the Math. It's indicative of price manipulation - I suspect it's the power companies valuing their electricity.
Here is the math every 11.5PHs results in 15 Blocks Found per day (lottery, but average)
To mine the block successfully and fully is 1 in 2,170 chance.
Assuming a 100% hit, for 15 blocks every 15 days 12.5BTC.
To put it to monthly earnings.
Every 30 days results in 25BTC @ present (low balled) $7000.00 per coin that is $175,000 a mo.
A-> Electricity on average is $0.15 per kwh an average T9+ is 1400w-1600w = 33600w or (3.36KWh) * $0.15 = $12.09 per day or $362.88 a month per 10THs, if your electricity is $0.11 = $8.87 per day or $266.11, if your electricity is $0.06 = $4.83 per day or $145.15
B-> In terms of per 1THs 11.5PHs = (11,500THs) so 175,000 / 11500 = $15.00 a month per THs or $150.00 a month per 10THs
@$0.15 -> A - B (case 1) = -$162.88
@0.11 -> A - B (case 2) = -$116
@0.06 -> A - B (case 3) = +$4.95
<- End result, you pay $162.88 for your mined coins the funny part is the mined coins are only worth $150.00 <--- so you pay 2x's for the same coin. It's cheaper just to buy them.
So the only way to make money conveniently is... Your a business and get electricity in a commercial zone at $0.06 or your off-grid completely.
Which is starting to really make me suspect government regulation and manipulation because the prices are so close - which explains the 10 minute supply chain for BTC, it should be 5 minutes to be profitable minimum, and each time it halves it has to square root the time.
I am curious how many foreigners own electrical plants in the USA, and Europe and if they are Chinese.
I will not mine here unless I get at least 10% of the block if my miner finds the block. Make a decision Prohashing, miners are speaking. If I get 10% the block of the found block I will bring 1PHs. This is in addition to the PPS it's a bonus for doing the work. I would be more inclined to mine here if and only if I got an incentive to do so.
Here is the math every 11.5PHs results in 15 Blocks Found per day (lottery, but average)
To mine the block successfully and fully is 1 in 2,170 chance.
Assuming a 100% hit, for 15 blocks every 15 days 12.5BTC.
To put it to monthly earnings.
Every 30 days results in 25BTC @ present (low balled) $7000.00 per coin that is $175,000 a mo.
A-> Electricity on average is $0.15 per kwh an average T9+ is 1400w-1600w = 33600w or (3.36KWh) * $0.15 = $12.09 per day or $362.88 a month per 10THs, if your electricity is $0.11 = $8.87 per day or $266.11, if your electricity is $0.06 = $4.83 per day or $145.15
B-> In terms of per 1THs 11.5PHs = (11,500THs) so 175,000 / 11500 = $15.00 a month per THs or $150.00 a month per 10THs
@$0.15 -> A - B (case 1) = -$162.88
@0.11 -> A - B (case 2) = -$116
@0.06 -> A - B (case 3) = +$4.95
<- End result, you pay $162.88 for your mined coins the funny part is the mined coins are only worth $150.00 <--- so you pay 2x's for the same coin. It's cheaper just to buy them.
So the only way to make money conveniently is... Your a business and get electricity in a commercial zone at $0.06 or your off-grid completely.
Which is starting to really make me suspect government regulation and manipulation because the prices are so close - which explains the 10 minute supply chain for BTC, it should be 5 minutes to be profitable minimum, and each time it halves it has to square root the time.
I am curious how many foreigners own electrical plants in the USA, and Europe and if they are Chinese.
I will not mine here unless I get at least 10% of the block if my miner finds the block. Make a decision Prohashing, miners are speaking. If I get 10% the block of the found block I will bring 1PHs. This is in addition to the PPS it's a bonus for doing the work. I would be more inclined to mine here if and only if I got an incentive to do so.
Re: Reduction in earnings over the last month
Rather than me "do the math", can I suggest that if you reply to my post, then you "do the reading".
This is nothing, absolutely nothing, about the profitability of mining per se. I'm talking about the 'earnings', in dollar value from PH. I pay the electricity for my miners - that's a completely separate thing to how much I get paid by PH. The cost of electricity is relevant to my Return On Investment calculation, but that has nothing to do with the original question.
Your post really makes no sense and it looks as if you were just hijacking my post to make a point. You sound very much like a nut-job-conspiracy-theorist-bot. Perhaps you were last active during Brexit or the US election?
This is nothing, absolutely nothing, about the profitability of mining per se. I'm talking about the 'earnings', in dollar value from PH. I pay the electricity for my miners - that's a completely separate thing to how much I get paid by PH. The cost of electricity is relevant to my Return On Investment calculation, but that has nothing to do with the original question.
Your post really makes no sense and it looks as if you were just hijacking my post to make a point. You sound very much like a nut-job-conspiracy-theorist-bot. Perhaps you were last active during Brexit or the US election?
Re: Reduction in earnings over the last month
It's the same thing. The Difficulty goes up because of the number of Miners vs. the number of blocks available and the time threshold of 10 minutes per block. Indirectly, you should have read into this if you have any knowledge of crypt-currencies.
The price of the coin drops directly as the valuation of the supply is reevaluated. Specifically, too many miners producing. The infrastructure is at this time, greater then the supply limit (10 minute blocks) aka the ability to produce the supply, miners. Therefore, ROI and profitability and cost are ALL the same thing and I did not hijack nothing. All of this is capitalism 101, supply & demand either your not American and don't understand economics and business or you really didn't pay attention in High School if you are.
Ergo, cost of product will fall if the supply is over abundant. Right now there is too many miners on the entire network so to regulate the supply chain the difficulty increase proportionately to the limit of 10 minutes per block which is the manipulation of the amount of the coin indirectly. Because the fewer blocks that are found result in the price going back up. Which means to make money the only way in this current model is to lower the number of miners on the network, so that the difficulty LOWERS making it easier to mine the blocks with less miners.
The problem is, a lot of amateurs with too much ambition and not enough common sense, invested a few million into bitcoin miners and want to recover their money. This means, minimally - 10months of people sweating it out until then with lower income potential. Because, morons are in the network now and everyone thinks they will get rich quick driving the cost of the commodity down, and over expanding the infrastructure.
Honestly, if it continues at this rate, with certainty the entire thing will burst and the valuation of Bitcoin will $0.00 bankrupting a lot of people.
My suggestion is still valid. To keep the mine operational, I suggest a 10% split of the block to the found block miner OR maybe 1BTC is lottery to any of the miners in the share but only 1 per year or something. This way it incentives the miners to come to the mine and use it.
Otherwise, what will happen is inevitable. The bigger mines that have PHs and millions of dollars behind them will drive out the little guys and they will monopolize the block chain. Eventually, the smaller mines like this one will disappear because it will be unsustainable. In business, you have to adapt to change or you will not survive. This is the required course correction for this mine to be profitable.
The price of the coin drops directly as the valuation of the supply is reevaluated. Specifically, too many miners producing. The infrastructure is at this time, greater then the supply limit (10 minute blocks) aka the ability to produce the supply, miners. Therefore, ROI and profitability and cost are ALL the same thing and I did not hijack nothing. All of this is capitalism 101, supply & demand either your not American and don't understand economics and business or you really didn't pay attention in High School if you are.
Ergo, cost of product will fall if the supply is over abundant. Right now there is too many miners on the entire network so to regulate the supply chain the difficulty increase proportionately to the limit of 10 minutes per block which is the manipulation of the amount of the coin indirectly. Because the fewer blocks that are found result in the price going back up. Which means to make money the only way in this current model is to lower the number of miners on the network, so that the difficulty LOWERS making it easier to mine the blocks with less miners.
The problem is, a lot of amateurs with too much ambition and not enough common sense, invested a few million into bitcoin miners and want to recover their money. This means, minimally - 10months of people sweating it out until then with lower income potential. Because, morons are in the network now and everyone thinks they will get rich quick driving the cost of the commodity down, and over expanding the infrastructure.
Honestly, if it continues at this rate, with certainty the entire thing will burst and the valuation of Bitcoin will $0.00 bankrupting a lot of people.
My suggestion is still valid. To keep the mine operational, I suggest a 10% split of the block to the found block miner OR maybe 1BTC is lottery to any of the miners in the share but only 1 per year or something. This way it incentives the miners to come to the mine and use it.
Otherwise, what will happen is inevitable. The bigger mines that have PHs and millions of dollars behind them will drive out the little guys and they will monopolize the block chain. Eventually, the smaller mines like this one will disappear because it will be unsustainable. In business, you have to adapt to change or you will not survive. This is the required course correction for this mine to be profitable.
Re: Reduction in earnings over the last month
OMG - can't believe you're so focused on your own world, you can't see that things are different for others.
You think the world is BTC - seriously? It is the most significant Crypto and the rest of the market follows BTC, but it is not the only coin.
If you don't understand that the market price is driven NOT by mining, but the trading market, then it's you who needs to go back to school. Whether there is one miner mining, or 1 million miners mining, the only thing that changes is the difficulty and the reward of mining. The price is related to how much someone is willing to pay on an exchange for that coin.
1 Miner = very low difficulty.
1 million Miners = very high difficulty.
Very simplistic - but essentially correct.
Regardless of which is the case, if the maximum price you can sell your coin for is $0.01, then the 'value' of the coin is $0.01.
If the maximum price you can sell your coin is $1,000.00 then the 'value' of the coin is $1,000.00
Whilst there is a supply and demand element, it is a small part of the 'value'. BTC has dropped, what? 50% in 6 months, is that because almost overnight, there was double the number of BTC? or double the number of miners? No. The market went from Bullish to Bearish. People stopped buying BTC at value $X and so the price fell. Very very little to do with the number of miners.
The value of a coin is related to how much someone is willing to pay for it. It's really that simple. And if you don't realise that the value is related to what someone will pay, rather than the intrinsic value of the item itself, then it's you who simply doesn't understand things.
Your have a right to air your idea on the way PH run their reward system - put that suggestion to them. Feel free. But it has FA to do with the point I was making.
You think the world is BTC - seriously? It is the most significant Crypto and the rest of the market follows BTC, but it is not the only coin.
If you don't understand that the market price is driven NOT by mining, but the trading market, then it's you who needs to go back to school. Whether there is one miner mining, or 1 million miners mining, the only thing that changes is the difficulty and the reward of mining. The price is related to how much someone is willing to pay on an exchange for that coin.
1 Miner = very low difficulty.
1 million Miners = very high difficulty.
Very simplistic - but essentially correct.
Regardless of which is the case, if the maximum price you can sell your coin for is $0.01, then the 'value' of the coin is $0.01.
If the maximum price you can sell your coin is $1,000.00 then the 'value' of the coin is $1,000.00
Whilst there is a supply and demand element, it is a small part of the 'value'. BTC has dropped, what? 50% in 6 months, is that because almost overnight, there was double the number of BTC? or double the number of miners? No. The market went from Bullish to Bearish. People stopped buying BTC at value $X and so the price fell. Very very little to do with the number of miners.
The value of a coin is related to how much someone is willing to pay for it. It's really that simple. And if you don't realise that the value is related to what someone will pay, rather than the intrinsic value of the item itself, then it's you who simply doesn't understand things.
Your have a right to air your idea on the way PH run their reward system - put that suggestion to them. Feel free. But it has FA to do with the point I was making.
Re: Reduction in earnings over the last month
Again, your wrong. ALL Alt coins besides Syscoin which is the only one I know of, follow BTC because they set their trading value against BTC. Which makes BTC the centralize core of all crypto. It means, like the US Dollar, it is the reserved currency for the world (not officially but by usage). So please, stop with your opinion of trade economics. Trade economics in crypto is much much different then in STOCKS! It is not the same thing, it is 100% different you sound like those morons on Wall-Street that try to fit everything into that model.
Stocks do what you say, Crypto is a CURRENCY <- CURRENCY, meaning it can inflate, meaning it will inflate if too much is coined. It is also used as a transaction medium (STOCKS ARE NOT TRANSACTIONS, ONLY CURRENCY IS). So, it is a CURRENCY! There is no BULL or BEAR, there is evaluation of SUPPLY and DEMAND for that supply. It has and contains intrinsic value of wealth.
"A holder of stock (a shareholder) has a claim to a part of the corporation's assets and earnings. In other words, a shareholder is an owner of a company. Ownership is determined by the number of shares a person owns relative to the number of outstanding shares. For example, if a company has 1,000 shares of stock outstanding and one person owns 100 shares, that person would own and have claim to 10% of the company's assets." <- YOU DO NOT OWN BITCOIN OR ANY ALT CURRENCY, You posses it. You are not legally tied to it, as there is no LAWS regarding it because it is not LEGALLY bound to any country.
"Generally speaking, each country has its own currency. For example, Switzerland's official currency is the Swiss franc, and Japan's official currency is the yen. An exception would be the euro, which is used as the currency for several European countries. While these currencies can be specific to a nation, other countries have declared foreign currency to be legal tender in their own country. For example, El Salvador and Panama allow the use of the U.S. dollar as legal tender, and immediately after the founding of the U.S. mint in 1792, U.S. residents used Spanish coins because they were heavier." <- CURRENCY IS BOUND TO A COUNTRY AND REGULATED AND IMPOSES LAW
No bank or country in their right mind want BTC or any other currency to be legit, because it takes away their power. So, with that said and now understood - the PURPOSE OF CRYPTO CURRENCY IS IN FACT TO REMOVE THAT POWER FROM THE GOVERNMENT; it was designed so that no government or entity could control it, rather the people using it only. WHY? Because corrupt nations are bankrupting and there are NO LAWS REGULATING IT.
So, dummy, BTC is HIGHLY volatile because A. It's not stock as you suggest B. It's a currency with no regulation or tied to any NOR WILL IT EVER C. It's maintained by the body that uses, which is NERDS AND GEEKS buying tech equipment mostly and games, and in some cases shady drug dealers and unlawful persons and some countries under sanctions.
The price is dropping because countries that have stored a reserve in bitcoin are using them, drug-dealers in the US are being deported back to Mexico, and the NERDS can't afford their Titan-V GPU because morons who think this is a stock exchange flooded the market with data-centers hoping to get rich understanding NOTHING about the material.
Stocks do what you say, Crypto is a CURRENCY <- CURRENCY, meaning it can inflate, meaning it will inflate if too much is coined. It is also used as a transaction medium (STOCKS ARE NOT TRANSACTIONS, ONLY CURRENCY IS). So, it is a CURRENCY! There is no BULL or BEAR, there is evaluation of SUPPLY and DEMAND for that supply. It has and contains intrinsic value of wealth.
"A holder of stock (a shareholder) has a claim to a part of the corporation's assets and earnings. In other words, a shareholder is an owner of a company. Ownership is determined by the number of shares a person owns relative to the number of outstanding shares. For example, if a company has 1,000 shares of stock outstanding and one person owns 100 shares, that person would own and have claim to 10% of the company's assets." <- YOU DO NOT OWN BITCOIN OR ANY ALT CURRENCY, You posses it. You are not legally tied to it, as there is no LAWS regarding it because it is not LEGALLY bound to any country.
"Generally speaking, each country has its own currency. For example, Switzerland's official currency is the Swiss franc, and Japan's official currency is the yen. An exception would be the euro, which is used as the currency for several European countries. While these currencies can be specific to a nation, other countries have declared foreign currency to be legal tender in their own country. For example, El Salvador and Panama allow the use of the U.S. dollar as legal tender, and immediately after the founding of the U.S. mint in 1792, U.S. residents used Spanish coins because they were heavier." <- CURRENCY IS BOUND TO A COUNTRY AND REGULATED AND IMPOSES LAW
No bank or country in their right mind want BTC or any other currency to be legit, because it takes away their power. So, with that said and now understood - the PURPOSE OF CRYPTO CURRENCY IS IN FACT TO REMOVE THAT POWER FROM THE GOVERNMENT; it was designed so that no government or entity could control it, rather the people using it only. WHY? Because corrupt nations are bankrupting and there are NO LAWS REGULATING IT.
So, dummy, BTC is HIGHLY volatile because A. It's not stock as you suggest B. It's a currency with no regulation or tied to any NOR WILL IT EVER C. It's maintained by the body that uses, which is NERDS AND GEEKS buying tech equipment mostly and games, and in some cases shady drug dealers and unlawful persons and some countries under sanctions.
The price is dropping because countries that have stored a reserve in bitcoin are using them, drug-dealers in the US are being deported back to Mexico, and the NERDS can't afford their Titan-V GPU because morons who think this is a stock exchange flooded the market with data-centers hoping to get rich understanding NOTHING about the material.
Re: Reduction in earnings over the last month
To support what I said - the core trade for ALL Crypto is mining equipment. The producer trades no $$$$ (Country currency), it trades the result of the equipment in use. Therefore, the producer of the equipment is evaluating that the HASH is worth x to them, not the $$$$ (Country currency). So they "TRADE" mining equipment for the usage of the equipment, which you absorb. Because, your in a corrupt nation, it imposes a "TARIFF" in the form of cost to run the equipment known as kwh. Therefore, the evaluation of a brained wash mass is that, electricity dollars = mining equipment. Which is actually wrong, it is electricity dollars => BTC => mining equipment - as the BTC is the currency exchange from dollars to BTC which you pay for by running the equipment.
The price of the BTC is therefore valued at the (TOTAL SUM OF POWER USED / # OF COINS PRODUCED) <------- DING DING DING Evaluating the network as a whole if 1kwh was used to produce 16million coins at $0.15 bitcoin would be worth .0000000009375. = COST OF PRODUCTION
So historical evaluation is more accurate to 30.1TWh or 301Gwh or 3010Mwh or 30100kwh * 24 (722400kwh a day) @ $0.15avg = $108,360 / (6400 aprx coins a day) ($16.82 per coin) * 3,000,000 miners (demand, 3 million number of miners in competition (WASTE calculation aprx )) / 6400 coins = $7,835. Yes, that is the real reason the value goes up and down, not your magical view of the universe. -----> 3,000,0000 miners on the whole network.
In stock retard land, you want higher competition only because the evaluation of the number of stocks is FIXED. People who suggest what your suggesting do not consider the evaluation of cost to PRODUCE because they do not see it as a currency.
The price of a BTC should be @ $2000.00 to $3000.00. We need to lose 1.5Million miners or lose 50% infrastructure or double the value of the coin at current rates.
The price of the BTC is therefore valued at the (TOTAL SUM OF POWER USED / # OF COINS PRODUCED) <------- DING DING DING Evaluating the network as a whole if 1kwh was used to produce 16million coins at $0.15 bitcoin would be worth .0000000009375. = COST OF PRODUCTION
So historical evaluation is more accurate to 30.1TWh or 301Gwh or 3010Mwh or 30100kwh * 24 (722400kwh a day) @ $0.15avg = $108,360 / (6400 aprx coins a day) ($16.82 per coin) * 3,000,000 miners (demand, 3 million number of miners in competition (WASTE calculation aprx )) / 6400 coins = $7,835. Yes, that is the real reason the value goes up and down, not your magical view of the universe. -----> 3,000,0000 miners on the whole network.
In stock retard land, you want higher competition only because the evaluation of the number of stocks is FIXED. People who suggest what your suggesting do not consider the evaluation of cost to PRODUCE because they do not see it as a currency.
The price of a BTC should be @ $2000.00 to $3000.00. We need to lose 1.5Million miners or lose 50% infrastructure or double the value of the coin at current rates.
Re: Reduction in earnings over the last month
The cost of electricity is over evaluate by 100% on average because it's a business in capitalist countries and in socialist countries like RUSSIA and CHINA and DUBAI it's $0.04 to $0.08 kwh. Halving the value of production. Which BTW is where all the big mining operations are.
Only way to make money is to have these things run 100% on solar panels which devaluates them to $78.35 to produce NOT INCLUDING THE COST OF THE EQUIPMENT to run 3 of the 1600w miners with uninterrupted power is $50000/3/daily coin value adds $2.58 to the value per days creation. Which will drop the miners or add more and eventually pop ... No more money from crypto.
To make it sustainable. The usage must increase to evaluate the crypto against commodities like food, services. Then and only then does crypto work - to do that - everyone must agree it is a currency; when that happens the value of crypto sky rockets and becomes a measure against global debt.
Only way to make money is to have these things run 100% on solar panels which devaluates them to $78.35 to produce NOT INCLUDING THE COST OF THE EQUIPMENT to run 3 of the 1600w miners with uninterrupted power is $50000/3/daily coin value adds $2.58 to the value per days creation. Which will drop the miners or add more and eventually pop ... No more money from crypto.
To make it sustainable. The usage must increase to evaluate the crypto against commodities like food, services. Then and only then does crypto work - to do that - everyone must agree it is a currency; when that happens the value of crypto sky rockets and becomes a measure against global debt.
Re: Reduction in earnings over the last month
The price now is like $7000.00, if we double the value of the coin, then that would be $14000.00Hobo01 wrote:The price of a BTC should be @ $2000.00 to $3000.00. We need to lose 1.5Million miners or lose 50% infrastructure or double the value of the coin at current rates.
So how can it be 2000-3000 AND 14000 at the same time?
I'm confused.
Also, at a value of $2000.00-$3000.00 what does the electricity cost need to be then to break even.
With the current PPS pay structure and the amount of hash being applied?
Re: Reduction in earnings over the last month
eeesh, people overcomplicating things as usual.
your hashrate earns you so many coins in a given time.
coins now days are worth much less than a couple months ago.
so, your daily $ earnings are much less.
you mine coins, you do not mine dollars
your hashrate earns you so many coins in a given time.
coins now days are worth much less than a couple months ago.
so, your daily $ earnings are much less.
you mine coins, you do not mine dollars